(erielack) Three Questions - Mail Trains

["JG at graytrainpix" <graytrainpix_@_hotmail.com>]

Now that the Morristown Bumping Block controversy is over (which admittedly 
was pretty cool, much like a courtroom drama; the jury ponders one set of 
evidence, then gets swayed by a new set of facts, both sides arguing 
vehemently until the clincher finally arrives!), I’d like to get back to a 
less controversial subject, i.e. the Erie / EL mail trains to Chicago.  To 
respond to Bill Romanyshyn‘s question a few days ago about trains 3, 4, 7 
and 8: trains 7 and 8 were Erie’s Pacific Express and Atlantic Express, 
respectively, which were primarily mail trains but carried passengers and 
offered part-way diner and sleeper services.

According to Erie’s Jan. 17, 1959 schedule, 7 left Hoboken at 1245 am and 
arrived in Chicago at 1:30 am (Central Time), carrying a sleeper from 
Hoboken to Salamanca.  Number 8 left Chicago 1010 pm with two sleepers, one 
for Akron and one for Meadville.  It arrived in Hoboken at 9:45 pm (Eastern 
Time) the next day. Things didn’t change too much at first on the EL.  The 
October 29, 1961 schedule indicates a 12:30 am departure for 7 with a 
sleeper to Hornell, having an arrival in Chicago at 1:15 am.  Number 8 left 
Chicago at 10:05 pm with the same two sleepers as on the Erie, and arrived 
in Hoboken at 9:55 pm. (Recall Jim Boyd reminiscing in an old Railfan Mag 
about having a few hours to kill in Chicago before catching a late night 
train, so he and some friend with a car drove to various downtown stations 
and got time exposures, including the Atlantic Express at Dearborn with 
PA’s; ah, the golden era of railfanning).

On the NY Division, number 7 used the Bergen County Line, while number 8 had 
a scheduled stop in Paterson, so it used the Main.  I have an Oct. 25, 1964 
NY Division timetable showing number 7 leaving Hoboken at 1:15 am and number 
8 arriving in Hoboken at 12:30 am; I don’t have the corresponding Chicago 
times.  So the EL was tinkering a little with the schedule.  I believe that 
sleeper and diner service had ended either in ‘62 or ‘63.  An April 30, 1965 
NY Division schedule indicates that numbers 7 and 8 were still carrying 
passengers, but an August 1, 1965 system timetable no longer showed them 
(footnote: the old Erie Main Line via downtown Passaic was gone by mid-63, 
but number 8 still had a Paterson stop, and thus ran via the “revised Main 
Line” thru Lyndhurst and Kingsland).

As to the successor no-passenger trains 3 and 4, employee timetables from 
April 30, 1967 indicate that number 3 left Hoboken at 1:15 am and arrived in 
Chicago at 2:00 am the next day; number 4 left Chicago at 9:15 pm and 
arrived in Hoboken at 10:35 pm.  Number 4 did not have Paterson work 
anymore, and thus it usually ran via the Bergen County Line (as with number 
3 and 7 all along).  So, the overall schedule for 3 and 4 wasn’t that much 
different from 7 and 8 on the Erie in 1959.  The Post Office canned the RPO 
contract and thus 3 and 4 were taken off on Feb. 18, 1968.

About solid TOFC trains: NY99 and 100 usually had some boxcars with 
forwarder / LCL traffic mixed in with the TOFC blocks, thru the early 70s. 
There may have been occasions when traffic was heavy and an all TOFC section 
ran during the 60s, such as the brief-lived Advance NY99 in 1968.  But as to 
regular all-TOFC service, that probably would have been Second NY-100 and 
Croxton 99 with the start of the UPS contract in 1970.  But maybe PB99 and 
PB100 to Boston via Binghampton ran all-TOFC when they started back in 1968 
??

Hope this helps a bit.

Jim Gerofsky



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