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Re: (erielack) Speaking of radios & Speed Signs



Bob,

 I see your point that the signs could easily be out of date, particularly
if superelevation were changed.  Still, as with this morning's Japanese
catastrophe where 50+ people were killed--and the engineer was thought to
have been doing 75 mph+ on a 45 mph curve (he was late and making up time)
- --I'm wondering if the signs aren't a good last-ditch reminder.  I still am
impressed by the cab displays in the Washington Metro when I first saw them
back in 1980-81...displays for actual speed and the posted speed limit.  I
don't know, but I think even the best engineer can stargaze once in a while
and lose track of exactly where he (she) is.  The more safeguards in place
the better...in my opinion.

Chuck


                                                                                                                                
                      Dlw1el2_@_aol.com                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                      04/22/2005 09:57 To:     Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com                                                         
                      PM                       Smtimko_@_aol.com                                                                  
                                       cc:     erielack_@_lists.railfan.net                                                       
                                               erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org                                                   
                                               vze3fhdr_@_verizon.net                                                             
                                               wpdj61_@_optonline.net                                                             
                                       Subject:                                                                                 
                                               Re: (erielack) Speaking of radios & Speed Signs                                  
                                                                                                                                



In a message dated 4/22/2005 7:45:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Charles_Walsh_@_Berlex.com writes:
 What about permanent speed restriction signs for speed restricted curves?
 The DL&W used them throughout their system with a black rectangular metal
 sign market with the speed limit at that point --e.g., 65--cut out of the
 metal, for visibility day or night.  If another speed restriction occurred
 within 2(?) miles, a second diamond-shaped yellow marker (showing the
 second speed restriction) was placed above the black marker.  In
 situations, such as on the NJ Cut-Off, where there were long stretches
 without any speed restrictions, a single yellow market was placed in
 advance of the actual speed restriction--it was a fixed distance, but I'd
 have to consult an old employee timetable to confirm the exact
 distance--and then a single black marker was placed at the actual start of
 the permanent speed restriction.  This was a simple and elegant way to
 post
 the speed limits and I wonder why these signs weren't maintained or
 replaced over time post-EL.


To All

Just some thoughts!

I don't think distance came into play here.  If the next change of speed
was a 1/4 mile away or 5 miles away, the yellow diamond was informing (
reminding ) you of it. If there is a posting of a set distance for a single
yellow diamond, please advise..

Some of the reasons for not keeping this system up to snuff, was that the
RR was constantly changing.  A forty mile an hour curve one year might be a
35 MPH curve the next. Then you get into who was speeding and who wasn't
via what authority and why wasn't the speed sign corrected, etc etc.  I
believe these signs were not meant to convey authority, just act as
reminders.    Time Tables and Bulletin Orders conveyed authority.   Just
not having additional ( surplus ) signs  probable also added to territory's
not being kept up snuff.   Also track gang foremen probable had many other
pressing needs, than to worry about reminder speed sign correctness.
Probable ripping the sign out was more convenient than trying to keep it
correct for the track dept.

What's interesting, is these old Lackawanna signs are not mentioned in any
old Lackawanna Rule books, but are very clearly described on page 59 of the
Black 1964 Erie Lackawanna book of Rules. Maybe it was a given on the
Lackawanna, but something the EL officials figured they better get in
writhing for ex Erie people to understand since there were  hundreds of
them out there? If someone finds a reference to them in an old Lackawanna
book please advise. Maybe I missed it?

Did any of these get placed in former Erie Territory after the merger?

Bob Bahrs





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