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RE: (erielack) Erie 750A-B-C-D GE cab unit demonstrator set in the 12-26-05 ABPR

Subject: RE: (erielack) Erie 750A-B-C-D GE cab unit demonstrator set in the 12-26-05 ABPR
From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee_@_verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:02:13 -0500
In-Reply-To: <20051231190132.78FFCEC0B05_@_mail.altelco.net>

Yes; Overland; HO; about 15 years ago, I think; no, they were not stellar models; yes, I've rebuilt
(along with help from a friend who's a machinist) an ABBA set, nearly finished after years of
off-and-on work.  I might be able to post photos sometime soon.

These were early Ajin.  The "engineering" was pathetic.  The floor would bow down in forward, up in
reverse.  This is an under the floor drive.  The shafts in the trucks are steel.  The universals to
the gear tower >>were<< brass.  The shaft in the gear tower was steel.  They would occasionally
touch right through.  The sparks made it fun to run the ABBA set in the dark, because not all four
units would short at the same time, so it would keep moving, but what a light show!!

Plastic (Athearn) universals solved that problem.

This model depended (a lot) on edge to edge solder joints, which are not up to a lot of handling,
and as much work as I've done on these, there's a LOT of handling involved.  Sometimes just keeping
it assembled was a chore.

SGL 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org 
> [mailto:erielack-owner_@_lists.elhts.org] On Behalf Of 
> lallman_@_mail.altelco.net
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:57 PM
> To: J. Henry Priebe Jr.; Erie Lackawanna Mail List
> Subject: Re: (erielack) Erie 750A-B-C-D GE cab unit 
> demonstrator set in the 12-26-05 ABPR
> 
> Hello Friends of Phoebe and Smiley
> 
> Did anyone ever produce models of these units? If so, in what 
> scale(s)?
> Thanks and
> HAPPY NEW YEAR!
> Len Allman
> 
> 
> > This topic has come up on the list before, but I haven't found one 
> > post which contains all the info I have found about the Erie 
> > 750A-B-C-D GE demo set. I thought I would give it a shot here.
> > 
> > Today's photo posted to the ABPR:
> > 
> > From: Joseph Testagrose joet5_@_optonline.net
> > Subject: US - Erie750ScanColl.jpg
> > Photo my scanned collection. 
> > Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 08:16:23 -0500 -- File Info: JPEG 1024x600 
> > Erie750ScanColl.jpg     165873 bytes 
> > 
> > http://abpr2.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?december05/12-26-
> 05/Erie750ScanColl.jpg
> > 
> > For those unfamiliar with these GE cab unit test beds, they 
> were a set 
> > of
> four
> > units, two had 8 cylinder 1200 HP engines and two had 12 
> cylinder 1600 
> > HP engines. They ran on the Erie as 750A-B-C-D from 1954 to 1959 at 
> > which time they were rebuilt by GE into UM20 16 cylinder 2000 HP 
> > units, becoming UP 620, 620B, 621, and 621B. UP retired 
> them in 1963 
> > and traded in the set for U50s
> in
> > 1964. Erie 750A-B-C-D spent a lot of time running between 
> Hornell and 
> > Marion, I don't know where else or how often they may have 
> run on the 
> > rest of the
> Erie
> > system. Occasionally they were split up and ran with other 
> makes and 
> > models
> of
> > Erie power, either for interoperability testing or when 
> units required 
> > maintenance or upgrades. These units were the direct 
> predecessors of 
> > GE's U25B thanks to all the data gathered during their time on the 
> > Erie. In their original configuration they have been referred to as 
> > models UM12 and UM16,
> but
> > I have not found any evidence that these were any kind of official 
> > designations or even used by GE back then. I have seen the UM20 
> > referred to UM20B by some folks.
> > 
> > According to Mel Helmich in 2003, the original engines were 
> > Cooper-Bessemer model FVBL-8 and FVBL-12 engines. These were direct 
> > predecessors of GE's C-B based FDL engine which has been used in 
> > thousands of locomotives for more
> than
> > 40 years, in various configurations up to 4400 HP in a 16 cylinder 
> > engine. GE built an engine test facility at Erie in 1954 to develop 
> > the C-B engine for road locomotive use. I believe they bought the 
> > design rights to the V8, V12 and V16 C-B F series engines 
> in 1956 and 
> > by 1962 GE had its new engine manufacturing facility at 
> Erie completed 
> > which allowed it to produce the F series engines in-house.
> > 
> > One of the original Erie 750 FVBL-8 test bed engines 
> survived into at 
> > least
> > 2003 at a Rolls-Royce/C-B test facility in Mount Vernon, 
> OH. I don't 
> > know if it was saved, but it was available for scrap value 
> ($220.00) 
> > in January of 2003. I hope someone somewhere has preserved it.
> > 
> > Information is from my research on the web and in our list 
> archives, 
> > Hank Morris in the Railfan.net Forums and the Second Diesel 
> Spotters Guide.
> > Corrections are welcome, I'm always interested in learning 
> more about 
> > these units.
> > 
> > There's another shot of a 750 cab unit (can't tell which 
> one) lashed 
> > up to Erie F3's in the ABPR from May of 2000 by Bill Weibel:
> > 
> > From: Joseph Testagrose joet1_@_worldnet.att.net
> > Subject: US-Erie 750
> > Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:53:50 GMT
> > 
> > 
> http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?may00/05-30-00/ERIE750BillWeibel
> > .jpg
> > 
> > It is also at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/erie750.jpg
> > 
> > Joshua Moldover has drawings of UM20 A and B units at:
> > http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/moldover/um20a.html
> > http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/moldover/um20b.html
> > 
> > For a photo of a C-B FVBL-12 engine with GT-581 main 
> generator, please see:
> > http://hometown.aol.com/wdssbn641/images/CBfvbl12.jpg
> > 
> > As a historical note, Alco-GE produced New South Wales 43-Class 
> > locomotives
> in
> > 1956 which had their noses and carbodies based on the UM20 design. 
> > Others
> have
> > noticed that the Erie 750 set shares some features with the 
> Alco FA/FB 
> > series which was also done by the GE design team. GE also 
> exported a 
> > number of locomotives in the late 1950's which had FVBL engines.
> > 
> > Henry
> > 
> > 
> > 	The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
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> > 	http://www.elhts.org
> > 
> 
> 
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References:
- Re: (erielack) Erie 750A-B-C-D GE cab unit demonstrator set in the 12-26-05 ABPR
  - From: lallman_@_mail.altelco.net

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