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From: Dlw1el2 AT aol DOT com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 21:24:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Steamtown #C1687 - Signal 2791, Bath NY, 1913
"C1687.jpg" - image/jpeg, 1053x2069 (24bit)

I don't have solid answers, but I can add this. Per the 1918 Rule book, all
diagrams show a standard 3 lens semaphore, but Abe is correct in that only
two indications were displayed via lower Quadrant signals. So, my guess,
and guess only, is that the center lens was opaque, and not used. So why
was it even there? Humm. Was this part of a semaphore reversible, in that
if turned, could be used on an upper quadrant signal? Was it a massed
produced part that was universally used on both upper and lower? No answers
here.

Was told by one of my mentors that there was an article way back in
Railroad Man Magazine, that explained why the white went away. He thought it
dealt with a wick being turned up to high, thus the heat cracking a red lens,
which in a storm fell out, resulting in a train running a red signal with
a head on collision becoming the results. 1901 seem to stick in his memory,
but he didn't even know where this happened. I asked if it was up to
each RR to change on their own, or if it was an industry wide change, He could
not say, but leaned towards it being an industry change.


All I can offer is:
In a RULES of Automatic Electric and Interlocking Signals for the DL&W,
1894, the white indication is given.
In a INSTRUCTION for Automatic Block and Interlocking SIGNALS, DL&W, Dec
16, 1900 the green is already being used.

Bob Bahrs



In a message dated 10/5/2015 5:31:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
larry.deyoung@verizon.net writes:



Does anyone have answers to any of Abram’s questions below? I surely don’
t.


Larry



Begin forwarded message:

From: кириллъославъ бериновъ /Abram Burnett
<_pravoslavna@comcast.net_ (mailto:pravoslavna@comcast.net) >

Subject: Fwd: Steamtown #C1687 - Signal 2791, Bath NY, 1913

Date: October 2, 2015 at 5:19:16 PM EDT





Do any of you know of locations, on your respective railroads, where
THREE-position Lower Quadrant Semaphores were used?


Note trailing correspondence, and photo at bottom of correspondence.


The photograph in question, should you wish to see the whole thing, is at:


http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-10-01-15/C1687.jpg


-- adb

____________________________________
From: "кириллъославъ бериновъ /Abram Burnett"
To: "Erie Lackawanna List"
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2015 5:10:14 PM
Subject: Steamtown #C1687 - Signal 2791, Bath, 1913


Photo C1687 shows an potentially curious Lower Quadrant ("LQ") Semaphore
Signal, Signal No. 2791, near Bath, NY.


"LQ" Semaphores were, almost without exception, capable of showing only
TWO aspects: Horizontal for Stop, and "hanging down" or "nearly vertical" for
Clear. The "nearly vertical" limitation was because the signals lacked a
motor which was capable of driving the semaphore arm to full vertical
position. And because there was no "room" for an intermediate 45-degree position,
without such being confused with the "hanging down/nearly vertical"
position, the 45 degree position was almost never used on LQ semaphores.
Motorized, three-position Upper Quadrant semaphores were developed and patented in
1903 by Leonore F. Loree and Frank Patenall, and it was the motor which
made the UQ semaphore capable of three aspects. Signal 2791, in this picture,
is not a Loree motorized semaphore.


In Steamtown image #C1687, both semaphore arms are "hanging down,"
indicating that both the first and second blocks beyond the signal are clear.


Here is the mystery: Signal 2791 is an LQ signal, but has >> THREE <<
glass roundels in the spectacle. What gives? Why is a signal capable of only
TWO aspects equipped with THREE roundels, as if she were a bonafide
three-aspect signal?


Can someone consult a Lackawanna Rule Book of the appropriate era, and see
how many positions a Lackawanna LQ semaphore was capable of assuming?


For extra credit, can someone tell me when the Lackawanna converted the
colors on its signals from Red, Green (for caution) and White (for clear,) to
the presently accepted standard of Red-Yellow-Green ?


-- abram burnett,
Morse Telegrapher


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C1687.jpg

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