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Re: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad

Subject: Re: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
From: bob gillis <robertgillis_@_verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:52:35 -0400
In-Reply-To: <BAY138-W645CE0578AAA7F659003D863A0_@_phx.gbl>
References: <001101c9f0cc$e880ce80$7a01a8c0_@_paul> <BAY138-W645CE0578AAA7F659003D863A0@phx.gbl>

Michael Connor wrote:
> Paul The Lorain, Ashland & Southern was a joint Erie 
> Railroad-Pennsylvania Railroad affiliate for most of its life.  In 
> its early abandonment (c. 1926) the Erie acquired the Ashland 
> terminal trackage of the LA&S and the balance was scrapped.  The 
> newish book, "The Rattlesnake and the Ramsey," digs very deep into 
> the history of this line although I still am puzzled as to what the 
> Erie really got for consenting to abandonment of a jointly-owned 
> direct link to Lorain and the tube works.

Per the SPV Great Lakes East Atlas the LA&S only went to Oberlin where a
  connection may may have been made with the LSMS/NYC to the  Lakeshore
Terminal.  However an article by John A Thompson linked from  the
Wikipedia Article says the LA&S went to South Lorain. and  pictures shows
the LA&S and the L&WV bridges over the LSMS and remains of the railroad
in Lorain and a map at http://ohiorr.railfan.net/images/lwv1.jpg of the
railroads south of Lorain.

The LA&S is not mentioned in the 1910 OG.

The LA&S crossed the L&WV north of Oberlin apparently at grade

The Lorain and West Virginia was a competitor but remained until
abandoned in  1969.

bob gillis
> 
> 
>> From: doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net To: erielack@lists.railfan.net; 
>> stwarogowski_@_windstream.net; KRinMich@aol.com Subject: (erielack) 
>> Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:58:40 
>> -0400
>> 
>> Thanks, Steve, I figured you'd chime in at some point. That's quite
>>  an Ashland Turn, 99 cars. Considering the FB-4 consist, it appears
>>  that roughly half the Turn was Hardings. Interesting also that the
>>  train was essentially empty parts cars. IIRC, the inbound 
>> materials for Fisher Body were trucked in from foundries nearby at 
>> Lordstown and Cleveland. I recall a study you sent me a while back,
>>  conducted by EL in the mid-60's, considering the potential for 
>> diversion of FB traffic from Cleveland being diverted to rail. It 
>> concluded that rail service was too slow and unreliable over such a
>>  short haul, not to mention the poor equipment utilization. One 
>> wonders if a dedicated short, reduced crew, interdivisional train 
>> similar in concept to Reading's "Bee-Line Service" might have 
>> succeeded here.
>> 
>> There were quite a few customers at Ashland. It appears that 
>> activity on the Kent Sub was concentrated in two portions, between
>>  Harding and Ashland (including Mansfield), then further east 
>> between Creston (W&LE interchange) and Kent, and few customers in 
>> the roughly 20 miles between Ashland and Creston. So a turn 
>> terminating at Ashland makes sense to me now.
>> 
>> According to my SPV atlas, the LA&S (Lorain, Ashland & Southern) 
>> was a PRR affiliate, and evidently was abandoned long before the EL
>>  years. So I presume Erie picked up some LA&S trackage and 
>> customers in the Ashland area when this occurred.
>> 
>> Paul B
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Stephen Twarogowski" <stwarogowski_@_windstream.net> Subject:
>>  (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
>> 
>> Industry in Ashland included the following (from the Central 
>> Territory firms list):
>> 
>> Ashland City Farm Bureau Ashland OH EL Grain Ashland Equity 
>> Exchange Ashland OH EL Grain Budd Co. Ashland OH EL Railcars Eagle
>>  Rubber CO. Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods F.E. Myers Ashland OH EL 
>> Pumps and Sprayers Faultless Rubber Co. Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods 
>> Garber Publishing Ashland OH EL Printers General Latex & Chemical 
>> Ashland OH EL Liquid Latex Hess and Clark Ashland OH EL Animal Feed
>>  National Latex Products Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods U Brand Co. 
>> Ashland OH EL Pipe Fittings
>> 
>> 
>> Picking a Sunday out of my January 1972 Marion Trainsheets it shows
>>  the Ashland Turn on Sunday, Jan 16, 1972 as being ordered at 1700
>>  and departing Marion at 1900.  10 loads, 89 empties with RS3's 
>> 1005, 1037, 1026, 1008, 1021.  The 1026 and 1008 were left at 
>> Harding; 1037 was left at Mansfield; the 1005 was left at Ashland.
>>  The following day FB-4 was ordered at 1600 and departed Marion at
>>  2100 with C424 2406 and 1 load, 52 empties.  It arrived OD at
>> 2245. FB-5 made the return trip departing OD at 0035 with 43 loads
>> and 8 empties; 29/8 for Marion, 14/0 for the C&O.  Looking at a few
>> days worth of FB-4/FB-5 it looks like C209 was its assigned
>> caboose. Conductor McAdow and engineer Schmitt.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> From: krinmich_@_aol.com Subject: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and 
>> Railroad
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> The last crew at Harding was done on Saturday morning.? Sometime on
>>  Friday/Saturday whatever westbound with a divisional crew that 
>> came along and could work without delaying anybody would gather up
>>  the engines.? Could be MC-3, 93, 95, 89, 61 whatever - any Marion
>>  hump train.? Might not be the same train for all the engines 
>> because there was a timetable limit on how many engines you could 
>> have together.? Ashland had a lot of little places.? There was some
>>  kind of foundry and a lot of stuff along the old LA&S south.? 
>> Biggest place was probably Eagle Rubber (I think that's the name).?
>>  They did a lot of business but no tonnage because it was a lot of
>>  rubber toy products.? Eagle Rubber still was using a lot of the
>> old 40 ft box cars just because of?their product with low tonnage.?
>> I nerver worked as an agent there so I couldn't tell you all the 
>> places.? Ashland was the end of the turn because we had to get the
>>  serviced engine back there in time for Monday morning.? There 
>> wouldn't! be anything to pick up coming back unless for some reason
>>  the Marions from Friday had gotten missed at Ashland or Mansfield
>>  or maybe there was still a WB of all Marions still sitting at 
>> Martel WB siding that had been set off because Yard C was filled 
>> up.? You couldn't pick up anything off the PRR at Mansfield because
>>  that would be a yard move and I don't really think it would be a 
>> wise idea to have rord power going into the sidetracks at Mansfield
>>  to pick up.? If there was anything, there wouldn't be anyone there
>>  to tell us it was ready.? Anything that got picked up on Sunday 
>> night was because it had not been picked up since?it was ready on 
>> Friday or the aforementioned Marions not moved because Yard C was 
>> full.? Usually by Sunday night we had cleaned up what we had set 
>> off on Wednesday through Friday that?had been?held out of Marion WB
>>  Yard.
>> 
>> Keith
>> 
>> 
>> 
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------------------------------

References:
- (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
  - From: "Paul Brezicki" <doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net>
- RE: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
  - From: Michael Connor <mjconnor_rr_@_hotmail.com>

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