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Re: (erielack) NJ/PA - Environmental Assessment for Lacka
Some thoughts from [retired] passenger railway professionals on Scranton
service restoration --
A former manager of many transit and state department of transportation
official [Pennsylvania} comments:
SCRANTON SERVICE :
I agree that the 3:20 Scranton run is not sufficiently competitive to be
effective EXCEPT in the
peak hours when we have testimony that Martz Trailways needs 3:20 also for a
less desirable trip.
We can not build (rebuild) new lines for one train day each way Scranton
needs to be an intercity
service, also serving Binghampton, Elmira and Buffalo. Northern New Jersey
has several
million people that save time by not going to New York City. I ran a
gravity model estimate of
patronage on this route and it was sufficient to support three trains per
day each way. (Just 2 to Buffalo)
As for New York access, I assume the peak period needs eight to ten car
trains so the space
could not be justified for a Scranton train. What might be done is to take
a six-car peak train
if fhere is one that short and add the four Scranton cars to it, then run it
express electrically to
Dover where a diesel would take the four through cars farther west. In the
morning, reverse
the process.
There is also some modest potential for Scranton to Philadelphia and
Washington travel via
Newark now with the City Subway brach line to Broad Street Morris & Essex
station.
And the former GM of an EL passenger connection and long-time consultant
wrote:
>
>I know that you are quoting a source but as a resident of Northern New
>Jersey for much of my life (about 52 out of 72 years, including military
>service and working abroad) and having considerable familiarity with the
>area's railroad lines (past, present and future), I have difficulty with
>the following statement:
>
>" The service would require a two-seat ride into New York City with a
>change at Hoboken."
>
>Why is this so? Just because the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western
>Railroad's long-distance passenger service (Hoboken to Buffalo via Scranton
>and Binghamton), which was discontinued by successor Erie Lackawanna
>Railway in 1970, ended in Hoboken?
>
>New Jersey Transit is purchasing a fleet of dual-mode diesel-electric/
>straight electric (12 kV 25 Hz AC/25 kV 60 Hz AC) locomotives from
>Bombardier at the tidy sum of US$ 12.3 million apiece plus consulting
>costs. Some of these locomotives will be assigned to the non-electrified
>portion of the Montclair-Boonton Line to permit one-seat ride service to
>and from Pennsylvania Station, New York on trains that originate or
>terminate at Lake Hopatcong, Mount Olive or Hackettstown, the latter two
>stations being locate on what used to be called the "Old Road" and the
>"Phillipsburg Branch."
>
>Port Morris Junction, located two miles east of Netcong, is where the
>"Lackawanna Cutoff" - moribund from that point through Andover and
>Blairstown to Slateford Junction (near East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania) -
>begins. NJT is rebuilding the abandoned line from Port Morris Junction to
>Andover as the first step in re-activating the Lackwanna Cutoff and says
>that, when its Trans-Hudson Express/Mass Transit Tunnel and 34th Street
>station become operational in 2017, it will run Midtown Direct service from
>the non-electrified portion of the Montclair-Boonton Line using its dual
>mode locomotives for propulsion. This begs the question: What is it about
>dual mode locomotives that does not allow them to cross the Delaware River?
>(The boundary between New Jersey and Pennsylvania.)
>
>That being the case, my question is "Why cannot at least one train in each
>direction originating in Scranton pick-up passengers at Blairstown,
>Andover, Lake Hopatcong and Dover, run to Newark via the Morris and Essex
>Line, making station stop at Morristown and Summit, and then continue to
>PSNY or 34th Street, arriving between 8:30 and 9:00 AM using one of the
>"slots" assigned to NJT commuter trains? Similarly, in the evening peak
>period, could not a westbound departure be scheduled from PSNY or 34th
>Street between 5:30 PM and 6:00 PM, using one of the slots assigned to NJT
>commuter trains, serve selected stations between Newark and Dover and then
>make stops at Lake Hopatcong, Andover and Blairstown en route to
>Stroudsburg and Scranton, if not to the Southern Tier of New York State?
>
>Let's assume that a nominal service of three round trips per days would
>operate between Scranton and New York City, with one round trip originating
>and terminating at Binghamton, New York. Why could those two other round
>trips not be operated to or from PSNY or 34th Street during off-peak hours?
>
>Running time? Looking my copy of the May 1960 issue of The Official Guide,
>I note that the Lackawanna's Phoebe Snow, describes as a "De Luxe
>Streamliner," made station stops (some to board passengers only) at Newark,
>Brick Church East Orange, Summit, Morristown, Dover, Blairstown,
>Stroudsburg, Cresco, Pocono Summit and Tobyhanna en route to Scranton and
>points west. Its running time for the 133.17 miles between Hoboken and
>Scranton was 3 hours and 20 minutes, an average of speed of 39.95 mph. And
>it is unlikely that anyone can do better today over the same line, even
>with reconstruction of trackage on the Lackawanna Cutoff.
Given that my current Rand McNally road atlas gives 2 hours 21 minutes
for a New York - Scranton trip and the Martz Trailway bus does it in 2
hours 45 minutes to somewhat over 3 hours, this project seems like a
boondoggle. While major speed up MIGHT be possible west of Dover
compared with previous schedules for an acceptable cost (better
banking and cost effective curve easements and cutoffs), between Dover
and Newark or New York a major speedup is almost impossible without a
new line. Both current routes are roundabout to say the least. Any
new line might make the ARC (or is it THE) look cheap. Even if it had
provision for both local and express, I can't see where it would be
cost effective. The only way I can see a reasonably priced
reinstatement making sense is for it to be aimed at serving the
Pennsylvania to New Jersey commuting market. Even here, I question
whether it would be better than having a good set of bus routes.
>
>So reviving passenger service between Scranton and New York City over the
>same routing, regardless of whether the service is provided by Amtrak, NJT
>or some other entity, is unlikely to be a "commuter rail" operation,
>regardless of what the news media or uninformed public officials may call
>it. But, if there were a will to do so, whatever service is provided it
>could and should run to and from PSNY or 34th Street - not to Hoboken. I
>would call this a "no brainer" except that I am afraid that there are too
>many policy-makers out there that fit this category.
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