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Re: Ashland, LA&S, and Fisher Body was (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
Paul and all,
On some of the consists you sent me there was quite a bit of Ashland
traffic. I'd have to look back but those probably provide quite a bit of
detail about what was moving in and out of Ashland.
http://ohiorr.railfan.net/lase.html
The link is to a brief history of the LA&S. The book "The Rattlesnake and
the Ramsey" Mr. Connor referred to in his message is available from the ELHS
bookstore.
Some detail on the Fisher Body inbound steel study: FB was receiving steel
via rail from the EL direct in Youngstown and through Youngstown connections
with the PLE. The study looked at how the EL could capture the over the
road traffic from Cleveland. Republic and J&L were providing coiled steel
to FB moving down I-71. 60% of the steel (384,000 net tons consumed a year)
moved from Cleveland or Youngstown with Cleveland providing 40% of the total
tonnage. It was estimated if it all moved by rail this would amount to
6,400 carloads per year based on a 48-week production year, or 133 cars per
week. FB was receiving steel from Armco in Middletown, OH (3%); Empire
Steel from right in Mansfield (3.8%); Great Lakes (6.8%) and McClouth
(11.3%) in Trenton MI; Weirton Steel in Weirton, WV (1.5%); Wheeling Steel
in Steubenville, OH (3.8%) US Steel in Irvin, PA (3%): Pitt Steel in
Pittsburgh (6.8%); Republic in Warren, OH (3.8%); Youngstown Sheet and Tube
in Youngstown (16.5%); J&L in Cleveland (19.5%) and Republic in Cleveland
(20.3%). The actual handlings for 1963 showed the EL moving 1,949 carloads
into FB; about 30.5% of the total. Highway time was 3-4 hours, rail
amounted to 3-4 days. The delay was due to the interchange at Cleveland.
Republic's output moved via the River Terminal then to the B&O or NKP then
to the EL in interchange switch. Output from J&L moved from the Cuyahoga
Valley then to the B&O or NKP then to the EL. This EL study was done to
determine if the traffic would be better served if moved to a mainline
junction instead of being interchanged in the Cleveland terminal. One route
was NKP-Kent-EL then to Fisher Body. The B&O route was B&O-Akron-EL then to
Fisher Body. The NKP-Kent route provided a 28 hour service while the the
B&O-Akron route was erratic and ranged from 24 to 48 hours. During the
study a few cars from each junction were mishandled and wound up in Marion
and the service time because of that misrouting was 96 hours. Routing via
NKP-Kent saw the EL realize 61%-39% revenue split with the NKP; the
B&O-Akron split was 57%-43% in favor of the EL. The possibility of running
an EL-direct unit train of coiled steel was also discussed (that would have
been something to see, especially at Leavittsburg when the power would have
to switch ends). The report also notes that by using NKP and BO as
originating carriers, there was a greater chance of insuring proper
equipment was on hand for the movement.
Later in the report an interview with Fisher Body's traffic manager is
summarized. He stated that this was the first time the EL was actively
pursuing this traffic out of Cleveland and indicated a lack of suitable
equipment may have been the reason for ignoring it in the past. It appears
the analyst writing the report concurred with that opinion. The traffic
manager also complained about the wooden skids used for bracing the coils in
gondolas. He stated that splinters often became embedded in the coils and
caused indentations in the finished stampings. This was an issue with the
steel mills and was not discussed further. He offered no objections to the
EL handling the traffic as long as they could furnish the proper equipment.
They carry a 15 day inventory so fast service was not an issue. Pitt Steel
would occasionally request to move via truck because the PRR did not have
proper equipment on hand for loading. This traffic moved PRR-Youngstown-EL
when by rail.
The EL maintained round the clock crews at Harding Yard to switch Fisher
Body. Switching was set up as needed but was generally done at 1100, 1530,
2000 and 0001. Spotting loads of steel was determined by what loads needed
to be pulled. "Under no circumstances will any inbound cars be switched
that would interfere with the switching of outbound auto parts."
At the end of the report are some handwritten notes. The scribble is hard
to decipher but it looks like someone made contact with other roads about
pooling cars for a unit train. Also in the margin are prices of what can be
assumed to be coil cars - Thrall $32-34,000; Greenville $31,533; PS $30,245.
As the report was done as a study of "what if" there is nothing further
regarding what decision was made. The only other data I have regarding
Fisher Body in Ontario OH is from 1982, nearly 20 years after this study.
Conrail moved 10,153 loads of autoparts out of Fisher Body but only 648
loads of steel in. And GM announced this plant is to be closed in June
2010.
Steve
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Brezicki" <doctorpb_@_bellsouth.net>
To: "EL Mailing List" <erielack_@_lists.railfan.net>; "Stephen Twarogowski"
<stwarogowski_@_windstream.net>; "Keith Robbins" <KRinMich@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:58 AM
Subject: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
> Thanks, Steve, I figured you'd chime in at some point. That's quite an
> Ashland Turn, 99 cars. Considering the FB-4 consist, it appears that
> roughly half the Turn was Hardings. Interesting also that the train was
> essentially empty parts cars. IIRC, the inbound materials for Fisher Body
> were trucked in from foundries nearby at Lordstown and Cleveland. I recall
> a study you sent me a while back, conducted by EL in the mid-60's,
> considering the potential for diversion of FB traffic from Cleveland being
> diverted to rail. It concluded that rail service was too slow and
> unreliable over such a short haul, not to mention the poor equipment
> utilization. One wonders if a dedicated short, reduced crew,
> interdivisional train similar in concept to Reading's "Bee-Line Service"
> might have succeeded here.
>
> There were quite a few customers at Ashland. It appears that activity on
> the Kent Sub was concentrated in two portions, between Harding and Ashland
> (including Mansfield), then further east between Creston (W&LE
> interchange) and Kent, and few customers in the roughly 20 miles between
> Ashland and Creston. So a turn terminating at Ashland makes sense to me
> now.
>
> According to my SPV atlas, the LA&S (Lorain, Ashland & Southern) was a PRR
> affiliate, and evidently was abandoned long before the EL years. So I
> presume Erie picked up some LA&S trackage and customers in the Ashland
> area when this occurred.
>
> Paul B
>
>
> From: "Stephen Twarogowski" <stwarogowski_@_windstream.net>
> Subject: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
>
> Industry in Ashland included the following (from the Central Territory
> firms list):
>
> Ashland City Farm Bureau Ashland OH EL Grain
> Ashland Equity Exchange Ashland OH EL Grain
> Budd Co. Ashland OH EL Railcars
> Eagle Rubber CO. Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods
> F.E. Myers Ashland OH EL Pumps and Sprayers
> Faultless Rubber Co. Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods
> Garber Publishing Ashland OH EL Printers
> General Latex & Chemical Ashland OH EL Liquid Latex
> Hess and Clark Ashland OH EL Animal Feed
> National Latex Products Ashland OH EL Rubber Goods
> U Brand Co. Ashland OH EL Pipe Fittings
>
>
> Picking a Sunday out of my January 1972 Marion Trainsheets it shows the
> Ashland Turn on Sunday, Jan 16, 1972 as being ordered at 1700 and
> departing Marion at 1900. 10 loads, 89 empties with RS3's 1005, 1037,
> 1026, 1008, 1021. The 1026 and 1008 were left at Harding; 1037 was left
> at Mansfield; the 1005 was left at Ashland. The following day FB-4 was
> ordered at 1600 and departed Marion at 2100 with C424 2406 and 1 load, 52
> empties. It arrived OD at 2245. FB-5 made the return trip departing OD
> at 0035 with 43 loads and 8 empties; 29/8 for Marion, 14/0 for the C&O.
> Looking at a few days worth of FB-4/FB-5 it looks like C209 was its
> assigned caboose. Conductor McAdow and engineer Schmitt.
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: krinmich_@_aol.com
> Subject: (erielack) Re: EL in Railfan and Railroad
>
> Paul
>
> The last crew at Harding was done on Saturday morning.? Sometime on
> Friday/Saturday whatever westbound with a divisional crew that came along
> and could work without delaying anybody would gather up the engines.?
> Could be MC-3, 93, 95, 89, 61 whatever - any Marion hump train.? Might not
> be the same train for all the engines because there was a timetable limit
> on how many engines you could have together.? Ashland had a lot of little
> places.? There was some kind of foundry and a lot of stuff along the old
> LA&S south.? Biggest place was probably Eagle Rubber (I think that's the
> name).? They did a lot of business but no tonnage because it was a lot of
> rubber toy products.? Eagle Rubber still was using a lot of the old 40 ft
> box cars just because of?their product with low tonnage.? I nerver worked
> as an agent there so I couldn't tell you all the places.? Ashland was the
> end of the turn because we had to get the serviced engine back there in
> time for Monday morning.? There wouldn't!
> be anything to pick up coming back unless for some reason the Marions
> from Friday had gotten missed at Ashland or Mansfield or maybe there was
> still a WB of all Marions still sitting at Martel WB siding that had been
> set off because Yard C was filled up.? You couldn't pick up anything off
> the PRR at Mansfield because that would be a yard move and I don't really
> think it would be a wise idea to have rord power going into the sidetracks
> at Mansfield to pick up.? If there was anything, there wouldn't be anyone
> there to tell us it was ready.? Anything that got picked up on Sunday
> night was because it had not been picked up since?it was ready on Friday
> or the aforementioned Marions not moved because Yard C was full.? Usually
> by Sunday night we had cleaned up what we had set off on Wednesday through
> Friday that?had been?held out of Marion WB Yard.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
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